In my BlogHer panel on Saturday, I got to touch on the concept of not taking paltry pennies for the ad space on your blogs. Because really – none of us are getting 4 digits for those Go Meat ads.
(Unless Dooce – are you reading? Welcome, girl! Loving your hair lately.)
My feeling is that if you’re giving brands free real estate on your site through Google Adsense or affiliate programs, while not even making enough to get the minimum payout for them, then maybe you should, um, think twice about having those ads?
I believe I said something like “Stand up for yourself. You’re worth it. “
Paid bloggers, especially those of the female variety, undervalue ourselves. And that’s worth discussing.
Consider the programs that pay you based on clicks–what that means is you end up losing if the advertising sucks. Example: Say in my evil capitalist day job I write an ad for $600 solid gold toenail clippers that runs in Farmhands Magazine. For some crazy reason, no one buys any!
So is that Farmhands Magazine’s fault? Should they make less money for that ad because the product is stupid? Or because their demographic is not interested in $600 solid gold toenail clippers? Should they make less money because maybe hiring Gary Coleman to be a celebrity endorser for $600 solid gold toenail clippers wasn’t the best idea?
(Ew! Gary Coleman toenail clippings! Ew!)
Well that’s what cost-per-click programs essentially do to bloggers.
And then!
Just yesterday comes along the perfect PR pitch to help me make my case–all while tying in Stefania’s point about lame PR pitches to bloggers which I touched on about a year ago and Kristen has posted about hilariously as have others, including the few PR folks who get it. (Edited to add: In fact, David Wescott posted about it today from the PR perspective.)
Stefania (center) about to give the PR world a verbal whuping. First I noticed the pitch was addressed to “Julie.”
Then I got a quick follow-up email saying:
I don’t know why I called you Julie either
Yep, a winkie thingie. Not an apology. Just a winkie thingie. Because hahaha, isn’t it funny when that happens? And by the way, it happens every week.
But the letter got better from there. And I’m sure some of you reading got the same one, maybe addressed to Julie too:
Hi Julie,I’m presently working with [client] to help them expand their presence online and think a blogAd on Mom-101 would make an excellent addition to their online ad campaign.
Since the [client] is a fairly small company, I was curious to know what sort of discount you are able to extend toward a one-week trial campaign. Should the results of the test prove fruitful, we would be glad to continue advertising on your blog at a rate commensurate with your normal price structure….
What kind of discount I am able to extend? Seriously?
Here is my exact response (minus one extraneous paragraph):
Hi Danny,You called me Julie because you probably mailed this form letter to Mothergoosemouse right before you sent it to me, and forgot to change my name in the salutation.
I am pleased you would like to advertise on Mom101. I am not pleased that you are asking for a discount considering it’s what, 30 bucks for a week? It would cost more to buy a set of magic markers and make posters.
If you want your brand to have real estate on my blog and reach thousands of women, you are welcome to pay the full price. It is not my job to take a hit on the price if your creative is not compelling, creative, or clear enough to encourage people to click through. As someone with “a lot of experience with blogAds” surely you know that the prices are often paltry and out of step with other advertising programs. Asking mom bloggers – many of whom do this as their only source of income – to cut their rates is unconscionable.
I don’t usually respond to requests like this but frankly, it pissed me off.
Mom101
Argh.
Now I will say we had a very respectful exchange afterwards in which Danny apologized for insulting me and the value of my blog, and that since he’s working for a small advertiser with a limited budget, his approach was basically “it doesn’t hurt to ask.”
My response was that wrong, it does hurt to ask.
It hurts the momblogggers who, like his client, are also small businesses, and might in fact take the 10% cut because to them, 90% is better than 0% when this is their sole source of income. And that sucks.
I’m not retelling this conversation to be a dick. I don’t think Danny is a bad guy or that he was intending to be as sleazy as his first email came across.
But I am retelling this because I don’t want to see his client’s ads on any of your blogs, knowing that you took 10% off the price for him.
Don’t mess with my girlz. They be my mommygang.
73 shards of brilliance… read them below or add one
I’m sorry I didn’t get to be in on your panel — I was over at the political ones! (There’s a big surprise). But you have hit the nail on the head, as did Stefania. There is just an overall lack of respect, still, for women in so many arenas — politics, advertising — you name it. Has anyone been asking the “daddy” bloggers for discounts? I don’t think so.
Thanks so much for this post. I’m new to all of it and this read is empowering and insightful. And your response to Danny was spot on! (In fact, I stood in front of my laptop and applauded you.)Thanks again!
What a great post! I hope you don’t mind when I refer to it a little later in the week. I love it that you stood up for not only yourself but ALL mommy bloggers who are just happy to pay their hosting bill! LOLThanks again
Dawn, from a little bitty blog that you’ve never heard about LOL
I got the same form letter and sent him in return the form letter I created for PR people! A form letter for a form letter! I love it!I did add that since my ads were only $30/week, the rate was already so low that there was no need to further discount it. Gah.
Even though I wasnt able to make it to blogher this year, I’m glad I was able to read some of the discussions on what happened through the mom blogs that I frequent. After reading all of your posts regarding PR people & the comments, I’m definitely rethinking my strategy. Ive become overwhelmed with product reviews and I’m not getting paid. Some of them are worth it because I like the products but some of them are not. It’s time to start charging what I’m worth for product reviews.However when it comes to adsense, I have to say that it is truly something that has worked for me. I’m not saying that it has worked well on my personal blog but it has worked very well on my other sites and niche blogs as a way to monetize my sites. As for PPP, I signed up with them when it first started out just to see what it was all about and to do a review on another blog so I took an offer. The offer paid maybe $12 for a paragraph and the payment was timely. That is the only offer I have done EVER. I’m not sure where I stand on PPP however because there is such a difference in bloggers and blogger status. Some bloggers use it to make ends meet and I can’t say anything bad about that. That’s just the kind of person I am. I may even use PPP as it relates to one of my sites in the near future but probably not on my most valuable sites. I get too much traffic for some company to get a $5 permanent SEO friendly link going to their site. That’s not fair for me. BTW, I was one of the bloggers who accepted a roll of bounty paper towels. LOL. That was before I was bombarded with reviews and thought it was nice that someone recognized me and valued me. Now I know they don’t really value me at all and basically I gave them a good review and a permanent link to their billion dollar product for about $1 worth of product. I feel sick.
Thanks for the discussion.
Liz,Your line about the magic markers was brilliant!This is an excellent discussion and validates why I’m completely opposed to Adsense (not knowing how much your blog real estate is selling for makes no sense!).One thing I would add is that even bloggers with a small audience (like me) have room to negotiate when they’re approached by ad companies. Marketers pay a premium for well-segmented and targeted audiences – some companies want that. Maybe not P&G, but some do.Don’t let yourself be bullied – they need you more than you need their five cents.
YOU. GO. GIRL.It was so nice to read your post. Best,Danielle
Thanks for the info. I’m fairly new to blogging, but a bunch of friends have started payperpost. I really had no idea about all this stuff!
Gosh, I hate to add more to this discussion, but what about the people who are paying writers to blog for them. I’m not necessarily talking about blog networks like b5media, who do a base monthly fee and ad revenue share. Instead I’m talking about companies who want to hire you to blog 5 times per week, 250 word minimum, original content, SEO, etc. and only want to pay $200 per month. I’ve had such jobs, which I only took because of the “prestige” of working for the site. I figured the hourly rate was o.k. since it was basically rewriting press releases they emailed me. Then the project changed. I had to blog anonymously. They wanted research and interviews done. The pay ended up being less than $10/hr, so I quit.The freelance copywriting community has been hit with sites like elance.com where you low bid other writers for jobs. It demeans our work and brings down wages. I believe bloggers are facing the same situation and we need to stop taking jobs where we are paid $5 per post.Like Liz said, it’s time that all writers (bloggers and otherwise) get paid what they are worth!
Anne-Marie, you make excellent points! Women should be aware of their value in all venues, not just blogging. That elance deal sounds frightening. The one solace is that you get what you pay for. Hire a $5/day freelancer and the work will reflect it. (Jerkwads.)But I want to be clear that value isn’t solely monetary. As < HREF="http://mayberrymom.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Mayberry<> mentioned in an earlier comment, what you get in return for advertorial or a writing assignment can be traffic, community belonging, prestige as you mention, or even just great writing fodder.Hell, I blogged KY spray mist. Had a great time doing it too.
bitemycookie – I am, in fact, surrounded by this profession. My husband owns a PR business and my sister is a media buyer in NYC. You misunderstood my comment. I was saying that it’s just business *to the PR person* and that they don’t sit around trying to rip off *only* mommy bloggers. As you pointed out – and I was trying to say – they try to rip off everyone.
Liz and other commenters were offended that the PR people ask for discounts and my point is that they are not targeting mommy bloggers *only* in this respect. It happens EVERYWHERE, all the time. Oh, and Liz? You need to move this blog to Wordpress so we can subscribe to your comment feed! It’s tough following the brilliant comment conversations in bloggers ancient system. 
ok. I never knew that I actually really cared about this issue, and you are making me see how SO relevant it is to any female blogger–even if she does not run ads.god i love you.
I think I’ve experienced every range of emotion by reading your post and all these comments. Thank you for saying it out loud and educating the masses with grace and chutzpah.
After thinking about some things last night I felt like I should come back here to comment on a few more things seeing as this is “the happening place”
Anyway, when you get paid for product reviews do you feel that you have to be positive? Doesn’t it change your writing style? I think most bloggers would tend to be a little less negative when getting paid for a review for fear that they wouldn’t get their next gig. What do you think?Furthermore, I don’t feel devauled when another mom blogger takes reviews or PPP or adsense or whatever that I don’t. I say whatever works for them. The internet is a HUGE place and there is room for all of us and our niches! To me it then seems like(maybe it’s all in my head and simply isn’t true and I’m being too emotional about it) those moms who are saying overall that we are being devauled are already above in terms of blog/job status or better off than the ones who are taking these offers. Or maybe they just don’t get excited about free stuff like I do sometimes(well depending on the product)! 
Petite Mom Blogger nails it. What you do (or don’t do) to make money off your blogging is up to you. I’ve done everything from paid posting, to reviews for free stuff, to getting paid (well and poorly) to write. I trust my gut in what I will and won’t write about, and what I want to make on a hourly basis for writing/editing.That being said, I work with some terrific PR people who have promoted my blogs, who are cool when I turn down things, and those who say up front “we’d like to send you X, but please don’t feel obliged to write about it or write positively.”Like all facets of life, there are great people in PR and real a-holes as well.
Anne Marie – as I just emailed Petite Mom, I am all for free will. I just want people to be educated enough to know what choices are theirs to make. I also think that someone had to stand up at some point and say, “Ya know, I was thinking…a woman making 50 cents on the dollar just doesn’t seem fair” before things could change. I also think that calling PPP “review posts” is misleading. They’re not reviews, they’re advertorial, or endorsements. Of course cash makes you want to to write nice things. We all like cash!
I have also have received letters addressed to others. Although mistakes do happen–and I’ve certainly made my fair share–that immediately sets the spam alert off for me.At any rate–that you for sticking up for those of us who don’t have that sort of “pull” yet.I do occasionally offer discounts if I truly believe in the person or their product…
I already knew I had some misgivings about this post, when something Shannon(phatmommy.com) wrote helped me identify just what my discomfort was about. You’re essentially calling for a voluntary rate-level agreement. And whether you invoke gender solidarity, or blogger solidarity, or whatever to help foster an “us” vs. “them” mindset, you obscure the relevant differences in the “us” you claim to stand up for. The “us” who are marginal bloggers, not well established, or for whatever reason are not as attractive as promotional vectors (yes, I’m a real charmer) will lose their chance to even earn the discounted rates. Meanwhile, the “us” who are incumbents, proven revenue generators, etc., will benefit further as the opportunities that could have been spread to folks who used to be willing to accept the discounted rates will now flow to the blogging “mainstream”. This is the same pattern and effect as minimum wage, union wage floors, the NYC taxi medallion system, beautician license requirements for hair-braiders, and a million other examples: the establishment benefits, the marginal suffer.In this light, your statement that “I don’t want to see his client’s ads on any of your blogs, knowing that you took 10% off the price for him” sounds less like an expression of solidarity, and more like a racketeer’s veiled threat.I KNOW this is not what you had in mind. You are always very conscientious about not impugning the motives of your peers with whom you disagree, and I’d hate for you or anyone else to think that I’d be ascribing such base motives to you. However, I do find your position on this subject rather, umm, maternalistic?, and for anyone else out there who might share the same unease at the way you chose to express your position, I wanted to take a crack at possibly explaining just what might make them feel uneasy about it.
Fair enough points Jonathan. (Although the idea of me as a threatening racketeer – I think I like that! Even if it’s a bit off from where I’m coming from.)I’m not calling for a rate agreement at all and I appreciate you pointing out that it might sound that way. Also, it’s the “marginal” or as I’d like to think, “yet undiscovered but still totally worthwhile” bloggers who I have in mind here; the people who will happily cut their rates for a chance at a long-term advertiser…that will never come to fruition. Or at least the way this particular pitch came across to me. When the pitch is made under the guise of “Well, let’s see how well your site performs for me and then I just miiiiight have a long-term relationship with you” it feels like a false promise. Like a lothario conning you into [euphemism here] for one night, while you hope there’s a diamond ring somewhere in your future. It’s a false promise in that I know how often advertisers renew (or don’t renew) on personal blogs, and false in that I know how well blogads on individual sites perform on click metrics (eek, did I just say click metrics?) which are not high.If this guy really wants to see how well his ads do, he needs to buy an entire hive of blogs then look at the collective results (there are discounts through blogads when that is done, by the way, and he should know that). Not approach individuals, ask for discounts, and evaluate them one at a time. It’s not even a good media tactic. There’s a cumulative effect that multiple brand impressions have in a campaign. In people terms: each ad on each blog is important to that campaign, whether or not the readers click.SO…That’s why I don’t want people to take less on this one. As far as anything else – hell, go for it! If you have a relationship with the company or believe in them or just find their ads pretty, cut the price as much as you want. I offer them free sometimes myself. Also, thanks for calling me maternalistic. I don’t hear that a lot. (And great comment Jonathan. Seriously.)
Thank you for posting this. While I don’t yet get contacted by PR folks, I do regularly have to deal with my own community members asking for discounts to advertise. While I get that they’re a small business just trying to make it in the world, but um…so am I.Great stuff here. Thanks
this is one of the best articles that I’ve read to date concerning this issue.I just got an email from a pr company and wants me to “review” their product on my blog (http://www.thecocktailcafe.com) for free. What should I do?They said that in return they would “post a link back to my blog” but thankfully, after reading this article, I know now that I must value the real estate that is my blog and not sell myself short.thanks… Cheers!
Rhea, I think product reviews are a little different. If it’s of value to your readers (because your website doesn’t seem to be a personal blog, but a broader resource) you should consider it. But only if you like it. I run an entire website called < HREF="http://coolmompicks.com" REL="nofollow">Cool Mom Picks<> that does reviews for free. In fact, accepting money for a review is a little uncomfortable because it colors your objectivity. Feel free to email me if you want to discuss.
Wow am I happy to find your blog!I had been contemplating taking my adsense down since I couldn't find the right combination to produce any income. Checking my stats was disheartening, and as you mentioned, just giving the advertisers free ad space without ever reaching payout.After reading that paragraph, I just went and took my adsense out, and now I'm back again to finish reading all the comments & more on your blog! Thanks for the heads-up!